Real question about training with women in the martial arts? Guys, do you go easier on the women?
One of our Yahoo martial art community was attacked and I read some answers and thought of this question to raise discussion not arguments. I am wondering if anyone out there is training women "softer" because of their sex?
Possibly it is unintentional as society teaches us to be gentle with ladies. Look around at your school before answering honestly please. I have seen and corrected cases of this at our school.
I’ve been teaching for many years now. I remember at one time I used to have a rule that "sex" didn’t exist on the dojo floor. I treated everyone equally and the same. I required as much from the women as I did from the men. I thought that treating them any other way would be doing them a disservice. After many years of teaching I realize that by NOT treating them as women I have done them a disservice. The bottom line is that women and men are different. We’re different in a great number of ways. A man has a natural aggression and fighting spirit. Women have a heart and spirit geared more for nurturing. Men have less emotional content than women. Men are built differently obviously. While I don’t treat them "softer" I do acknowledge that women have a different approach to martial arts than men. I think this is even reflected in many traditional systems. I’ve seen many times where certain weaponry, techniques, methods of movement are intended more for feminine spirit than masculine spirit. So I have adjusted my approach to teaching. While it could be considered a double standard, it is a double standard that is equal. Women train just as hard and are just as effective, it’s just different. Just for some examples of what I’m speaking about in case someone is wondering. Men are much more capable of movements requiring upper body strength. Our center of gravity is a little higher and upper region is broader. Therefore, punching techniques that exit from the chamber are more effective for men than women. Women have a lower center of gravity and a slimmer torso (thank god) and as such can generate more power by moving the entire body (since power can be derived from good foundation) therefore, they are more effective with striking techniques that flow from the chamber and have more of a "whipping" action.
Anyhow, just my two cents. I’m just glad to see women at the dojo. Although this last year the guys at our school have been outnumbered by the girls. Go figure.
David Dickerman
I am not in the martial arts but anyone who treats women ’softer’ needs to be fired and charged with blatant sexism. There is just no excuse for it anymore.
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canyon-ghost
That depends on the situation, too. I very nearly got beaten up at a belt test one day. I thought this middle aged woman I was to spar against might go easy. She kicked me hard enough to change my mind in a hurry. The sudden realization she was using full contact, woke me in an instant. Some women fight to win!
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cutesensiblechic
i’m a female in training and no, i am not treated any softer. if anything, since i’m the only female in the class, i think i’m treated a little more rough, which is cool because my trainer says i need to be prepared. at first i was against it, but now i truly appreciate it. my trainer and others have said they were be doing a disservice if women are treated otherwise.
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Filipe
Yes. But not voluntarily.
I don’t pre-think women is less capable, neither am I afraid of what others may think about me if I hurt a women.
It’s just a natural instinct of protection that I (and I’m convinced: most of guys) can’t help to feel, not just an influence of society. This instinct is bigger if she is a pontential soul-mate.
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My pratical experience, and after some psychological reflection and train on fighting.
bushido
of course.it’s human nature.men tend to take it easier on women than men no matter how hard they try not to.and in fact most women tend to do the same thing with other women.
anyone that says they dont do this is fooling themselves noone else
PS.of course if your a female you wont agree with this because you want everyone to believe that women are hard done by and get it harder than anyelse.but we all know thats not true.
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yupchagee
Yes. I find myself doing this subconsciously.
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Bruce K
I’m techincally an instructor, but i don’t have my own class…..in my school though, I have never seen adult women being treated softer. Although, the situation never came up, but we were told to go soft incase of pregnancies. Due mostly to certian non-obvious pressure points possibly causing miscariage (sp?).
Personal experience, the most i’ve gotten beat in sparring was from a woman. She was a second degree, but i didnt’ take her seriuosly…luckily this was very early on in my martial arts career. 30 straight seconds of her pounding on me before the teacher just stopped it. Never have been in a fight, but that sure taught me if a girl throws a punch and i don’t deserve it….not going to underestimate her.
Another factor i guess is the general softening of marital arts. People sign the waivers about injuries and still sue the studio.
ANother factor is its hard to judge a woman really since classes tend to be dominated by men. I can’t hit a woman the same way i’m hitting the 6′ 6” 250 lb of pure muscle guy. The way i kick him and he’s comfortable with would break the average person’s ribs (man or woman). Also men will …atelast with my expereince, tell you how hard to hit them. I was happy coming out of class with bloody shins, but the average girl i knew didnt’ really want to feel sore the next day. Guys are like this too, but i see it more prevalent in woman.
I was there to learn to fight. Classes 4 days a week……some peopel might argue with my personal
This might have some insight, but i personally hate sparring women. I’m pretty modest myself, but one instance, a well endowed woman’s chest was my head height. I think you can figure out what happened….repeatedly.
Another time i was being yelled at for going tooo light. So i threw a medium strength kick and drilled the girl in the face. I’ve seen men cry in class before, but knowing you just gave a girl a bloody nose does seem worse than giving one to a guy.
Also during some of the grappling type of moves. Grabbing a woman’s lapelle (sometimes they dont’ wear undershirts). Or straddled choke. Or even a rear chocke where girls behind is all up in your stuff. There is some "sexual" issues i guess is the word…..other stuff to…like how do you know the girl isnt’ goign to claim she was molested.
I think society does have an impact….maybe some of my modesty too….but its definatly different when its a man. A man’s ass pressed up against another man in the class room isn’t "gay"… a woman…its a bit weird.
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This is truth
I work harder on them. They signed up for the class.
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John Cena Sucks K-Fed's Ball
I like to smack it, flip it, and rub it down.
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super steve
first of all pound for pound men are always stronger then women its not sexist its genetics. women on the other hand have been proven to have a higher pain tolernace. i think men naturaly take it easier on women because society has taught them to do so from birth…boys are told to never hits girls at an early age….
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ninedemonsgod
I usually go easier on beginner women. Women tend to be unsure of themselve and doesnt like to fight. So I usually go easy on them until they aren’t afaird to strikes at me hard and know I won’t maul them then I’ll start to go harder on them until I’m as hard on them as I’m with men.
However for beginner men… No need to answer this one, they usually think they can whoop whole place and wouldn’t hesistate to mess someone up. So I or other experience students usually have to crush their ego and kick their ass hard to get them to calm down and listen.
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quiksilver8676
I’ve known (and come against) women who won’t hesitate to go toe to toe with a guy just as quickly; balled fists and ready to fight and I’ve had to warn them against making such decisions to fight.
And while I don’t like the idea of fighting a woman, I would easily face off with a woman just as I would another guy; instead of standing there and doing nothing while the other person thinks I’m a pushover just because I don’t always display an aggressive side to my personality.
In my opinion, once you’ve made the conscious decision to fight (especially if you’re over 18), then you’re just as willing to take whatever consequences your actions may garner.
We have a young lady who recently joined our adult class, and she is a bit timid especially in her sparring, I do work to be as aggressive as possible without going overboard but also encourage her to be more aggressive in her own counters and attacks, we all (the guys in the class) do what we can to get her to be more aggressive.
but I do have to admit that I’m tempted to pull my techniques, especially with her (but then I do it with everyone in the class so as not to hurt anyone in class).
we all work to boost the women’s training in the class so that they can go full on with the guys in the class, and we’ve had pretty good success with it..
but yeah I do think you’re right that it could be an unintentional motive ingrained in us as guys from the time we’re kids that it’s not cool to hit women.
But at the same time, we all train to learn how to defend ourselves so we ALL have to train in more realistic situations so that when something like that happens we are more prepared for it.
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15yr student of Martial Arts, Tang Soo Do and Hapkido
wldathrt77
I’ve been teaching for many years now. I remember at one time I used to have a rule that "sex" didn’t exist on the dojo floor. I treated everyone equally and the same. I required as much from the women as I did from the men. I thought that treating them any other way would be doing them a disservice. After many years of teaching I realize that by NOT treating them as women I have done them a disservice. The bottom line is that women and men are different. We’re different in a great number of ways. A man has a natural aggression and fighting spirit. Women have a heart and spirit geared more for nurturing. Men have less emotional content than women. Men are built differently obviously. While I don’t treat them "softer" I do acknowledge that women have a different approach to martial arts than men. I think this is even reflected in many traditional systems. I’ve seen many times where certain weaponry, techniques, methods of movement are intended more for feminine spirit than masculine spirit. So I have adjusted my approach to teaching. While it could be considered a double standard, it is a double standard that is equal. Women train just as hard and are just as effective, it’s just different. Just for some examples of what I’m speaking about in case someone is wondering. Men are much more capable of movements requiring upper body strength. Our center of gravity is a little higher and upper region is broader. Therefore, punching techniques that exit from the chamber are more effective for men than women. Women have a lower center of gravity and a slimmer torso (thank god) and as such can generate more power by moving the entire body (since power can be derived from good foundation) therefore, they are more effective with striking techniques that flow from the chamber and have more of a "whipping" action.
Anyhow, just my two cents. I’m just glad to see women at the dojo. Although this last year the guys at our school have been outnumbered by the girls. Go figure.
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Ray H
In my school everyone is treated the same , we train hard with hard contact . I don’t think it was the fact that as a female she was given "softer" training , I honestly think she was just so surprised and scared that she fainted . I’ve seen that happen to a lot of people when faced with similar situations . They get so scared that they basically shut down .
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Steve M
I try to train to just above the comfortable level with whoever I’m partnering. This way they are challenged but not overwhelmed, and get the opportunity to improve. If the girl is good, strong and aggressive, that’s how we’ll train. If she’s a bit dappy and unsure of herself, i’ll be gentler than with the first girl, but still try to stretch her a bit until she eventually does become good, strong and aggressive in defending herself. And that’s not just with girls – I do the same for guys too.
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30something country boy
Honestly yes, it’s very hard to deprogram my Southern upbringing. To actually lay your hands on a woman is something that I am having a hard time with but I am learning to use a little more resistance in training.
But on the other hand I fully understand by not showing the ladies in class full respect of treating them exactly as I do my male training partners I hinder their training. Anyone can get a false sense of security by training under less than realistic conditions.
Hope that helps
I train in American Kenpo, I’m a Blue belt.
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Kikn4JC
I study Ju-jitsu, I’m 19 years old, I’m a girl, and I’m in the adult class with the men triaing to be professional MMA’s. I am usually the only girl in class. does this bother me? no. in response to some jerk who answered before me, get your mind out of the gutter! When you grapple with a lady, if the only thing you can think about is where your junk is in contact with a girls body, you have issues. I have taken class with three guys like you, and the men in class kicked them out of the school. Emphatically.
I do believe that the men in class go a little softer with me, based on my size(5′7,150 pounds), and their size(5′10, 190 pounds is the smallest guy). If they went all out with me like they do someone their size I’d be in the hospital. However, they push me to stretch my comfort zone and to refine my skills. I get bruised up and occasionaly bloodied up, but that’s just part of class. The men in class treat me like I’m their daughter, and that is our attitude in class. When we grapple, they are training me to defend myself in a very bad situation. They know it, and they push me beyond my limit on the ground. If it starts to feel too real, i tell them to back off for a minute, and they respect my wishes. when i feel more comfortable, we go at it 100% on the ground. In self defense, I am one of the guys. they don’t cut me any slack, and I don’t cut them any slack. In sparring, I kick them in the head and they train me to recognize takedowns.
I know they go softer on me, but they train with me as hard as they do a man.
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Personal experience.
Clubber Lang
well i do not do alot of martial arts anymore. but i do still wrestle. and those few girls that i do wrestle i try not to go easy on them. but u are just careful where u put ur hand and how u handle her. its hard to do both. and it gives the idea that u are goin easy on them.
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jaskeyzero
it’s not really martial art in my book, but…
i took saber fencing two years back and i had a match against a girl. the girl had few years of more experience on her but i figured, she’s about 3-4 inches shorter than me, so i’ll go easy on her. ^^ big mistake. i thought my reach could beat her speed and/or technique, but no~. i made a cut to the head and a second later she was right in front of me, my saber arm hanging over her shoulder and her saber across my body. then i decided to get serious.
it happened 4 more times and i lost 5-0. ^^;; don’t underestimate a woman, they’re faster and smarter. (and eviler) (jk) (don’t kill me ^^;;)
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Rambo
i’ve seen girls trained the same way…
yes, i go easier on women when it goes to drilling
if they were good or better than me, then that would be a different story.
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Dragon
I can say this no they are their to train. I study martial arts and you go to get the training you need or want. They came in knowing they will get bruised or even break a bone. Now I am lucky do to fact their are no women in my school that can fight at my weight or size so I usually have to take on the eight or nine year black belts from other schools. But, trust me one day you will have to take on a girl that you think you should be soft on then wait till you end up on the mat losing. There is one girl at my school that looks like she is delicate but she is ranked number 1 in the US in kung fu for her age and she is already teacher level at 16 so you need to watch out. Soon she will be master level. So just remember they are there to learn just like you so make sure the money they are spending is worth it.
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Steven J
I personally never went softer on anyone due to age, size, or gender. We were all students and all got treated the same. Keep in mind that just because you know martial arts, that does not make you indestructible. There are people who grew up fighting in school yards who are extremely good fighters.
Keep in mind that women are not designed to take a lot of punishment. Striking a woman does more damage then striking a guy. But women tend to be more flexible and can handle grappling better, whereas small joint manipulation hurts men more.
I used to teach women self defense and the first thing I explained to them was that they did not want to stand and fight toe to toe with a guy. I taught them to strike quick and run away.
Quick story, when I first started taking TKD a girl who was a second degree black belt told me she could kick my butt even though I was much larger. It took me 2.2 seconds to grab her and take her down. You have to understand the physical limitations of someone.
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veibf
No I don’t but then I am Dan graded & quite honestly I don’t believe you need to go lighter. Mary at my Dojo is about 26 or so & if I went light she’d just hit me harder. Now I do go lighter with Sarah. She is about 12 and very small for her age. I am a quick with her as I am with any other person of her rank but I don’t hit her hard as her body just isn’t big enough to take it. In short you have to use some common sense here.
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harmony
in my school i notice that if two lower belt females practice together, they are more ….i dunno the word….careful? they say did i hit u to hard? are u ok? then to more experience they get the less …careful? they are. it’s not the same when two guys or a girl & guy train
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